Register
It is currently Sun 29 Nov 2020 11:56 pm

So how does this happen if there is a 13 month rule...

View active topics

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 PostPosted: Sat 15 Dec 2018 7:59 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Sat 27 Dec 2003 9:55 pm
Posts: 4496
Location: Portland, OR
ecwinch wrote:

Waitlist is entirely a developer program and can be ended at their discretion.

I would support that change. But I think all the recent focus is just going to make waitlists disappear entirely.


Ending the waitlist would open up a new loophole for people who own (or control) multiple accounts. This new loophole would be potentially larger than the existing waitlist problem. I think this loophole is already being exploited within the 5 day window to create guest BT reservations from earlier booked reservations.

The OP's opinion of limiting waitlist to an owner-only checkin/occupy policy would be more effective, at the expense of system flexibility.

/Jim

_________________
Click on www.pappas.me for our family website

Jim Pappas
Portland, OR

I enthusiastically recommend voting for independent candidates
for the WM Board.

Top
 Profile WWW  
 PostPosted: Wed 18 Dec 2019 2:07 am   

Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 9:00 pm
Posts: 176
It seems that the problem is that people make reservations a few days before the prime time period an then use multiple accounts and wait listing to walk the reservations forward into the prime time period. They cancel the reservation from one account, and the cancelled reservation is immediately picked up by the waitlist in their other account. At least, I think this is how it works, since I have never done it.

What if there was a one month window for the 13th month that had different rules?

If a reservation made 13 months out could not be cancelled until 12 months or closer to the reservation date, that would stop the walking forward.

Similarly, if wait listing was not allowed until 12 months out, that would stop the walking forward.

My preference is for freezing 13 month reservations so that they cannot be cancelled for a month, until 12 months out. But I think both rules would be good. And neither one of them touches the issue of guest certificates, so that reserving multiple units for a family gathering 13 months later does not require putting names on the reservations until you are sure which family members will actually be able to make it.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2020 4:27 pm   

Joined: Mon 26 Nov 2018 1:51 pm
Posts: 5
It appears that the Worldmark Board supposedly trying to limit the megarenters by enforcing the new guest certificate policy if you have more than one unit reserved is having no effect on improving availability. I started checking again this year at 13 months plus a few weeks ahead of prime xmas/NY weeks, and the same pattern from last year is happening again this year. So apparently any Worldmark owners who want to plan big family gatherings will have to pay extra money for guest certificates for their units beyond the 1st unit, and the megarenters will just be losing $100 for each week they are renting. So much for making Worldmark friendlier to the people who own a few weeks for their personal use if the owner wants to get a prime Xmas or NY week...

It's crazy how cheaply Worldmark ownerships are selling now. It doesn't seem Worldmark is helping owners who are trying to reserve prime weeks. Oh well.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov 2020 9:41 pm   
User avatar

Joined: Fri 30 May 2014 3:52 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Eastern Washington
No question that the g.c. rule is making no difference for the bookout waitlist cancel repeat dodge. But that's not surprising; it's done daily, I.e. before the 48-hour add a g.c. rule. Whoever is doing it can wait until they get the Christmas weeks they want and only add one extra.g.c. each, which is easy enough to recoup on high profit reservations (Cascade Lodge Whistler at Christmas/New Year's, for example). Maybe having to add one within 24 hours would be a deterrent, because then they'd have to use multiple g.c.'s and it would get expensive.

I have no idea why they have done nothing to stop this. They know how it's done and who's doing it. I guess they just don't care.

Having said that, it is worth it to call and waitlist right away as soon as what you want disappears. Some V.C.s will let you waitlist "early" (i.e. a few days before 13 months) if something has already disappeared, and by doing that, you can get in the way of whoever is doing the manipulation. I managed to get almost a week at Cascade Lodge by doing that a couple of years ago.

_________________
Claire

Worldmarks visited: Seaside, Eagle Crest, Leavenworth, Arrow Point, San Diego Mission Valley, West Yellowstone, Kona, Chelan Lake House, Canmore, McCall, Seattle, Indio, Cathedral City, Oceanside, Depoe Bay, Victoria, Discovery Bay, Surfside, San Francisco, Marina Dunes, Kihei, Deer Harbor, Lake Shores Chelan, Bend, Estes Park, Running Y, Whistler Cascade Lodge, Birch Bay, Fort Lauderdale Santa Barbara


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov 2020 9:26 am   

Joined: Fri 27 May 2005 6:15 am
Posts: 3911
chiarav wrote:

I have no idea why they have done nothing to stop this. They know how it's done and who's doing it. I guess they just don't care.
.


The GC is Wyndham's cut of the renting business. They don't want to stop it, just share in the profit. And if they catch non-renters in the net, that is just more profit for them.

Sue

_________________
Resorts Visited: All WA, OR, ID, MT, CO, UT resorts + Las Vegas Blvd, Reno, South Shore, Rancho Vistoso, Bison Ranch, Fairfield Sedona, Big Bear, Bass Lake, Angels Camp, Marina Dunes, San Francisco, Windsor, Clear Lake, Kona, Kauai, Oceanside, Pismo Beach, Solvang.

Non-WM:II (All blue deposits; studio-2BR) Grand Monarch Cancun, Newport Coast Villas, Pollard Brook, Harbor Ridge, FSA, Sedona Summit, Starr Pass Golf Suites, Lawrence Welk Resort villas, Stoneridge at Blanchard, Hyatt High Sierra, Ridge Tahoe, Marriott Desert Springs, Wyndham Oceanside on trade with owner. Manteo Club, Sunchaser Riverside, Suites at Fisherman's Wharf,Mountainside Fairmont Hot Springs, Welk Northstar. Getaways/AC: Ridge Tahoe, The Pines at Sunriver, Eagle Crest, Sedona Summit, Crestwood, Surfside, Marriotts Summit Watch.
RCI:Lagoon Shores at Roche Harbor, Stoneridge (Sunriver), San Luis Bay Inn, GEVC at Lighthouse Point.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Wed 18 Nov 2020 10:46 pm   

Joined: Fri 16 Nov 2018 10:16 am
Posts: 11
sue1947 wrote:

The GC is Wyndham's cut of the renting business. They don't want to stop it, just share in the profit. And if they catch non-renters in the net, that is just more profit for them.

Sue


Does anyone know if Wyndham keeps the GC fees, or if the GC fees go toward the upkeep/maintenance of the resorts?


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020 8:52 am   

Joined: Tue 16 Sep 2014 8:34 am
Posts: 89
Location: NYC
I too would like the waitlist walking to stop. However, I am against any more restrictions on our WM account - GCs, new fees, or anything else. Any time a new restriction is introduced, it restricts our ownership. And megarenters then find a different way to get the high value weeks. So, what is the point of continuing to restrict ourselves more and more every year? I would prefer to roll all the changes back which have applied in the last 5 years because my use of Worldmark is not any better today than in the past after all these megarenter limiting changes have been applied. In fact, I would say, my ownership usage is more difficult now.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020 11:09 am   
User avatar

Joined: Thu 29 Aug 2013 1:45 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Springfield, OR
Waitlist is not an option for Wyndham owners, I've been told when booking on Wyndham Club Pass. That leads me to believe that Worldmark (by Wyndham) will move to the same format. I would not support that, the waitlist is helpful for so many reasons.

I agree with those that say that friends and family using units is Not the same as renting for profit. For one thing, it was used at many a sales pitch helping to convince people to buy. And is used to keep the family interested, hopeful that when the parents pass WM ownership along, they are interested enough to keep paying the maintenance fees. This is all very different than the renters who do not see any value in ownership.

So there is manipulation of the Waitlist and it would be helpful if it weren't, dare I say, misused.

_________________
Worldmark/Wyndhams visited ~ California: San Francisco, Solvang, Indio, Palm Springs Plaza Resort, Palm Springs, San Diego - Mission Valley & Balboa Park, Anaheim (both), Angels Camp, Windsor. Washington: Birch Bay, Discovery Bay, Seattle The Camlin, Discovery Bay, Lake Chelan Shores, Deer Harbor, Leavenworth. Arizona: Havasu Dunes, Phoenix South Mountain Preserve, Rancho Vistoso, Scottsdale & Sedona. Nevada: Lake Tahoe, Las Vegas - Boulevard. Oregon: Portland - Waterfront Park, Depoe Bay, Gleneden, Bend - Seventh Mountain Resort, Redmond Eagle Crest, Seaside, Running Y, Klamath Falls, Canada: Victoria, Vancouver, Whistler. Idaho: McCall & Arrow Point. Florida: Fort Lauderdale - Sea Gardens, Fort Lauderdale - Santa Barbara, Hawaii: Kihei Mexico: Coral Baja. Many of these multiple times and exchanges into other systems. Luv, luv, luv our timeshare!


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020 2:24 pm   

Joined: Tue 06 May 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 2220
Location: Salem, Oregon
Marathoner wrote:
I too would like the waitlist walking to stop. However, I am against any more restrictions on our WM account - GCs, new fees, or anything else. Any time a new restriction is introduced, it restricts our ownership. And megarenters then find a different way to get the high value weeks. So, what is the point of continuing to restrict ourselves more and more every year? I would prefer to roll all the changes back which have applied in the last 5 years because my use of Worldmark is not any better today than in the past after all these megarenter limiting changes have been applied. In fact, I would say, my ownership usage is more difficult now.

=D> =D> =D>

_________________
Tom and Patti
Joined Worldmark August 2002
Las Vegas-Boulevard, Victoria, Seaside, Windsor, Clear Lake, Running Y, Coral Baja, Kona, Kihei, Tropicana, Oceanside, Sydney, Daytona Beach, Coffs Harbour, Gleneden, Canadian, Fiji, Rotorua, Kapa'a Shore, Mission Valley, Camlin, Arrow Point, West Yellowstone, New Orleans, Park City, St. George, Seven Mile Beach, Long Beach, Reno, Discovery Bay. Spencer Street, Leavenworth, Melbourne.
Residence Club - Seaside. Royal Solaris. DRI. Formerly RVC.
II - Newport Coast.
RCI - Fitzpatrick Family Castle, Bali Hai, Dyserth Falls Resort, Haven Court, DVC Old Key West, DVC Saratoga, Sea Mist Resort Cape Cod, Point at Poipu, Kilconquhar Estate and Country Club Fife, Club Paihia, Grand Mayan Cabo, Ka'Eo Kai.
RVC - Cabo, Cancun.
DRI - Le Manoir Des Deux Amants France, Royal Regency France, Paniolo Greens, Sea Mountain, Point at Poipu, KBC, Hono Koa, Orleans at 519 Frenchmen Street, Cabo Azul, Modern Honolulu.
Newly planned and Reserved:


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2020 7:29 am   

Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 9:00 pm
Posts: 176
Marathoner wrote:
I too would like the waitlist walking to stop. However, I am against any more restrictions on our WM account - GCs, new fees, or anything else. Any time a new restriction is introduced, it restricts our ownership. And megarenters then find a different way to get the high value weeks. So, what is the point of continuing to restrict ourselves more and more every year? I would prefer to roll all the changes back which have applied in the last 5 years because my use of Worldmark is not any better today than in the past after all these megarenter limiting changes have been applied. In fact, I would say, my ownership usage is more difficult now.


Sadly, I have to agree with you. After all the rule changes attempting to make it better for us to obtain reservations, the megarenters are still just as effective at swooping in and taking the reservations, while regular owners now have all sorts of new restrictions that effectively degrade the value of our ownership -- and make family gatherings at WorldMark resorts (something we used to do often) a near impossibility.

I think a real source of the problem is that there is no real way for owners to provide meaningful input into the formulation of rules. The Board comes up with rules from their limited experience of the issues, with no input at all on proposed rules in a forum like this where the full range of the problem can be discussed and proposed rules can really be modified or dumped based on owner input and not just the Board in an echo chamber.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2020 7:41 am   

Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 9:00 pm
Posts: 176
ecwinch wrote:
There are many possible reasons- and many of reasons are just others owners booking and overlapping reservations and cancellations.

But a trend like that is also an potential indicator of people using the waitlist to manipulate inventory. Basically using two accounts - one to capture and hold inventory, and another account to put in a waitlist request to capture the inventory when the first account releases it. It works a little like "walking a reservation" forward, but is more complicated.

We tested it here around two years ago regarding West Yellowstone. It just takes the know how, a lot of credits, and multiple accounts.


I just do not get this.

Do they book a 12-day reservation with one account and then on the real desired day 13 months ahead of the desired arrival date put in a waitlist request on the other account and then release the 12-day reservation?

Suppose my real desired arrival date is 3/20/22 in a high-demand period. If on 2/12/21, I book a reservation starting 3/12/22 (in a low-demand period) with one account, I do not see how putting in a waiting list request on 2/12/21 for a reservation starting 3/21/22 buys me anything. With that scenario, if I release the just-made reservation the following day 2/13/21, the second account waitlist receives it, but since the waitlist was for 3/12/22, the reservation has not walked forward at all.

Clearly, I am not seeing how walking forward is done. I just do not see how the waitlist can be exploited to do that, even with two accounts that both have a lot of credits.

What am I missing in this?

Until I know what I am missing and precisely where the problem lies, any solution I might think of may completely miss the real problem. You can't fix a problem until you can accurately define it, including the exact mechanism in this case.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2020 7:48 am   

Joined: Tue 06 May 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 2220
Location: Salem, Oregon
samehere wrote:
Marathoner wrote:
I too would like the waitlist walking to stop. However, I am against any more restrictions on our WM account - GCs, new fees, or anything else. Any time a new restriction is introduced, it restricts our ownership. And megarenters then find a different way to get the high value weeks. So, what is the point of continuing to restrict ourselves more and more every year? I would prefer to roll all the changes back which have applied in the last 5 years because my use of Worldmark is not any better today than in the past after all these megarenter limiting changes have been applied. In fact, I would say, my ownership usage is more difficult now.


Sadly, I have to agree with you. After all the rule changes attempting to make it better for us to obtain reservations, the megarenters are still just as effective at swooping in and taking the reservations, while regular owners now have all sorts of new restrictions that effectively degrade the value of our ownership -- and make family gatherings at WorldMark resorts (something we used to do often) a near impossibility.

I think a real source of the problem is that there is no real way for owners to provide meaningful input into the formulation of rules. The Board comes up with rules from their limited experience of the issues, with no input at all on proposed rules in a forum like this where the full range of the problem can be discussed and proposed rules can really be modified or dumped based on owner input and not just the Board in an echo chamber.


In the Modern World it would not be hard for the WM BOD to solicit information from the Members and not rely totally on advice from Wyndham Employees. But they have no desire to seek out the Members opinions. After all Wyndham employees will only give advice that is good for the average WM Member and not Wyndham.

_________________
Tom and Patti
Joined Worldmark August 2002
Las Vegas-Boulevard, Victoria, Seaside, Windsor, Clear Lake, Running Y, Coral Baja, Kona, Kihei, Tropicana, Oceanside, Sydney, Daytona Beach, Coffs Harbour, Gleneden, Canadian, Fiji, Rotorua, Kapa'a Shore, Mission Valley, Camlin, Arrow Point, West Yellowstone, New Orleans, Park City, St. George, Seven Mile Beach, Long Beach, Reno, Discovery Bay. Spencer Street, Leavenworth, Melbourne.
Residence Club - Seaside. Royal Solaris. DRI. Formerly RVC.
II - Newport Coast.
RCI - Fitzpatrick Family Castle, Bali Hai, Dyserth Falls Resort, Haven Court, DVC Old Key West, DVC Saratoga, Sea Mist Resort Cape Cod, Point at Poipu, Kilconquhar Estate and Country Club Fife, Club Paihia, Grand Mayan Cabo, Ka'Eo Kai.
RVC - Cabo, Cancun.
DRI - Le Manoir Des Deux Amants France, Royal Regency France, Paniolo Greens, Sea Mountain, Point at Poipu, KBC, Hono Koa, Orleans at 519 Frenchmen Street, Cabo Azul, Modern Honolulu.
Newly planned and Reserved:


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2020 8:42 am   

Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 9:00 pm
Posts: 176
geist1223 wrote:
samehere wrote:
Marathoner wrote:
I too would like the waitlist walking to stop. However, I am against any more restrictions on our WM account - GCs, new fees, or anything else. Any time a new restriction is introduced, it restricts our ownership. And megarenters then find a different way to get the high value weeks. So, what is the point of continuing to restrict ourselves more and more every year? I would prefer to roll all the changes back which have applied in the last 5 years because my use of Worldmark is not any better today than in the past after all these megarenter limiting changes have been applied. In fact, I would say, my ownership usage is more difficult now.


Sadly, I have to agree with you. After all the rule changes attempting to make it better for us to obtain reservations, the megarenters are still just as effective at swooping in and taking the reservations, while regular owners now have all sorts of new restrictions that effectively degrade the value of our ownership -- and make family gatherings at WorldMark resorts (something we used to do often) a near impossibility.

I think a real source of the problem is that there is no real way for owners to provide meaningful input into the formulation of rules. The Board comes up with rules from their limited experience of the issues, with no input at all on proposed rules in a forum like this where the full range of the problem can be discussed and proposed rules can really be modified or dumped based on owner input and not just the Board in an echo chamber.


In the Modern World it would not be hard for the WM BOD to solicit information from the Members and not rely totally on advice from Wyndham Employees. But they have no desire to seek out the Members opinions. After all Wyndham employees will only give advice that is good for the average WM Member and not Wyndham.


What the Board has been doing over the years has constantly degraded and diluted the value of our ownership. In addition to these rules, there is the imposition of paid parking at Anaheim, on which we had no input at all and which in my experience was a solution looking for a problem because I never had a problem finding a parking space in the WorldMark parking.

The Board's actions decreasing the value of our investment in our ownership is not sustainable. As more and more potential buyers learn about the on-going degradation of membership value, they will have less and less reason to want to pay the ever increasing prices Wyndham is charging per credit. Wyndham is shooting their own sales efforts in the foot with what the Board is doing.


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2020 1:17 pm   

Joined: Tue 06 May 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 2220
Location: Salem, Oregon
Perhaps they want to drive Members away to the Point that the remaining Members can not afford the increased MF's and Special Assessments to maintain the System. Worldmark is forced into Bankruptcy and Wyndham picks it up for a song and folds it into Wyndham.

_________________
Tom and Patti
Joined Worldmark August 2002
Las Vegas-Boulevard, Victoria, Seaside, Windsor, Clear Lake, Running Y, Coral Baja, Kona, Kihei, Tropicana, Oceanside, Sydney, Daytona Beach, Coffs Harbour, Gleneden, Canadian, Fiji, Rotorua, Kapa'a Shore, Mission Valley, Camlin, Arrow Point, West Yellowstone, New Orleans, Park City, St. George, Seven Mile Beach, Long Beach, Reno, Discovery Bay. Spencer Street, Leavenworth, Melbourne.
Residence Club - Seaside. Royal Solaris. DRI. Formerly RVC.
II - Newport Coast.
RCI - Fitzpatrick Family Castle, Bali Hai, Dyserth Falls Resort, Haven Court, DVC Old Key West, DVC Saratoga, Sea Mist Resort Cape Cod, Point at Poipu, Kilconquhar Estate and Country Club Fife, Club Paihia, Grand Mayan Cabo, Ka'Eo Kai.
RVC - Cabo, Cancun.
DRI - Le Manoir Des Deux Amants France, Royal Regency France, Paniolo Greens, Sea Mountain, Point at Poipu, KBC, Hono Koa, Orleans at 519 Frenchmen Street, Cabo Azul, Modern Honolulu.
Newly planned and Reserved:


Top
 Profile  
 PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2020 11:39 am   
User avatar

Joined: Thu 29 Aug 2013 1:45 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Springfield, OR
The main thing Wyndham incorporated from the Worldmark model is starting to put their properties in Trust so that purchases did not have to include a deed for a single property for a specific date. I'm not sure exactly how that works as they have all these owners out there with the original method. But broadly speaking they decided the WM model was an improvement. I agree :-)

_________________
Worldmark/Wyndhams visited ~ California: San Francisco, Solvang, Indio, Palm Springs Plaza Resort, Palm Springs, San Diego - Mission Valley & Balboa Park, Anaheim (both), Angels Camp, Windsor. Washington: Birch Bay, Discovery Bay, Seattle The Camlin, Discovery Bay, Lake Chelan Shores, Deer Harbor, Leavenworth. Arizona: Havasu Dunes, Phoenix South Mountain Preserve, Rancho Vistoso, Scottsdale & Sedona. Nevada: Lake Tahoe, Las Vegas - Boulevard. Oregon: Portland - Waterfront Park, Depoe Bay, Gleneden, Bend - Seventh Mountain Resort, Redmond Eagle Crest, Seaside, Running Y, Klamath Falls, Canada: Victoria, Vancouver, Whistler. Idaho: McCall & Arrow Point. Florida: Fort Lauderdale - Sea Gardens, Fort Lauderdale - Santa Barbara, Hawaii: Kihei Mexico: Coral Baja. Many of these multiple times and exchanges into other systems. Luv, luv, luv our timeshare!


Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Style originally created by Volize © 2003 • Redesigned SkyLine by MartectX © 2008 - 2010